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Yemi Osinbajo |
Interview By Kayode Falade
The Vice-Presidential candidate of the All Progressives Congress, Prof. Yemi
Osinbajo, in this interview with Kayode Falade, talks about his nomination and
other national issues:
Q: You were not in the early picture of contenders for the
vice-presidential slot. When and how did your name pop up?
A: I think my name was always being mentioned. My name came
up early. Maybe a great deal of importance wasn’t attached to it but it came up
early. At least, in the press, it was reported frequently early too. This has
been on since almost four or five months ago. There have been speculations for
that long. Thus, my name has always popped up.
Q: As a pastor and legal practitioner who is not much of a
politician; why did you accept the offer when you were nominated?
A: I accepted the offer because I believe one of the most
important contributions that any person can make to a society is public
service. For me, it didn’t require much reflection because I have always
believed the most effective way of making maximum impact on the welfare and
well-being of our society is through public service.
Q: You’ve always emphasized prayers. Did you pray about this
before you accepted?
A: I always pray. I prayed about this just as I pray about
many things because communication with God at all times is important. I also
think people, maybe, get more religious when it comes to political office.
People tend to say God told them to do something or the other; but I think the
most important thing to bear in mind is that as far as the Christian is
concerned, there is something called the priesthood of the believer, which
means that every believer is a priest unto God. It also means every believer
has a duty to serve man as if we are serving God. In other words, service to
man is service to God. For a Christian, especially a pastor, to suggest that if
he has an opportunity to serve millions of people, an opportunity to effect
policies which may alleviate the sufferings of millions of people, as it is the
case in Nigeria, an opportunity to fashion policies that may transform the
lives of people, I think it may be hypocritical not to participate in that.
I also believe that when you are committed to doing God’s
will — and His will for us all as Christians is that we must participate in
solving problems, especially the problems of the needy and those who cannot
help themselves — we must do those things. That is part of our calling and in
fact, our scripture says that we will be asked on the last day, ‘What did you
do when you saw me naked? What did you do when you saw me sick and in prison?’
If we then say, ‘Lord (Jesus), when did we see you hungry? When did we see you
sick?’ And then, Jesus will say, ‘Every time you saw those sick people, the
poor and the hungry; every time you saw the naked, it was me (Jesus).’ For me,
it is almost unthinkable for a Christian to second-guess public service. We
must be prepared to serve the people. That is what I teach and preach in my
church. There are probably hundreds of thousands of individuals as deserving
who do not get that opportunity, but I do. And then I should turn it down for
some reasons? It wouldn’t even occur to me, except if God were to say
specifically to me, ‘Don’t do it.’
Q: Did God reveal your victory?
A: That’s the point I’ve been trying to make to you. It is
not about winning. That is not what I am interested in. What I am interested in
is not what God says about winning or losing. I am not asking Him for, as it
were, a lottery. If we were going to play a game, then I could say, ‘O Lord,
will I win or lose?’ That’s not the point. The point is will I serve the people
or will I not? That’s the only issue I need to consider and I don’t need any
special directive on that because that is what God has already said we must do
as believers.
Q: And what did He tell you?
A: No, I won’t disclose that to you.
Q: The Redeemed Christian Church of God, where you are a
pastor, has come out to say it never endorsed you…
A: I don’t think the church has ever said any such thing.
Also, the church does not endorse candidates. The General Overseer of the church,
Pastor Enoch Adeboye, has not said any such thing. He has not issued any
statement. In any event, the RCCG as a church cannot endorse a candidate. How
can a church endorse a candidate?
Q: But did you seek Pastor Adeboye’s consent before
accepting the nomination?
A: I serve under the GO of the RCCG as a pastor. If I am
going to take any kind of action, especially an action that involves public
service, it is my duty to consult with him. It would be absolutely
irresponsible of me not to consult with him. And I have consulted with him.
Q: Did he give you his consent?
A: I have consulted with Adeboye fully. I am not prepared to
share with you the details of our discussion. But be absolutely certain that I
would not take these steps without properly consulting with him and that I did
what was needful.
Q: The opposition has labeled you a stooge of the National
Leader of the APC, Asiwaju Bola Tinubu. What is your reaction to that?
A: I think it is irrelevant. I cannot dignify that with a
comment. What anyone should do is look at my track record. In any event, when
you look at Tinubu, who is it that he has in any form supported that turned out
to be his stooge? Is it (Lagos State Governor, Babatunde) Fashola or (former
Ekiti State Governor, Kayode) Fayemi? Is it (Osun State Governor, Rauf)
Aregbesola or (Edo State Governor, Adams) Oshiomhole? Is it (Oyo State
Governor, Abiola) Ajimobi, (Ogun State Governor, Ibikunle) Amosun or Wale Edun?
These are individuals who have contributed tremendously to the development of
their states and the development of this nation. And all you need to ask those
who tell you about stooges and all of that is, ‘Who are those men and women of
character who they have produced to serve in the same states where we have
served so creditably?’ I think the statement is not really worth the comment.
One of the reasons given for ‘zoning’ the APC vice-presidential slot to the
South-West was that the region sacrificed so much for the emergence of the
party and that it has been marginalised in the current dispensation. As a
candidate of the South-West, what are your plans for the region?
I am a candidate of the APC, which is a national party. Don’t regionalise
candidature. Gen. (Muhammadu) Buhari is a representative of the South-West, the
North and everywhere else, and so am I. We were elected nationally; we were not
elected to represent regions or places. It would be wrong for us to say that
the reason why I am there is for the South-West. What then would the South-East
and South-South say? I don’t think that regionalising it in that way is right.
I think we are persons who have been appointed into national offices and we
will serve in those capacities. I think that is the right way to look at this.
I believe the South-West will be an engine of change and development in
Nigeria. It is important that that is maintained, just as all the parts of
Nigeria — the South-East, South-South and the North. Everyone has a role to
play and a contribution to make.
Q: Why then did your party say it gave the South-West the
slot?
A: I’m sure that is not an official statement of the party.
I am sure that is a speculation. I don’t think it is fair to say that is the
official position of the party. The party may have its reasons; but officially,
the fair thing to say is that Buhari and I were nominated by the party to be
national, not regional, officers.
Q: As a lawyer, you are trained to obey the rule of law
while Buhari is a retired Army general, who gained power several years ago
through a coup d’état. Are you sure there wouldn’t be a conflict if you are
elected?
A: I’ve interacted extensively with Buhari and I think he is
conscious of the fact that we are in a civilian dispensation and that we are
bound by the rule of law and the Constitution. He has repeated this so often.
He has demonstrated this by going to court every time he lost election,
pursuing the rule of law and legal processes.
He could have completely ignored it. He could have said, ‘I
don’t even believe in the rule of law. I don’t believe in the system.’ But he
has consistently done the right thing and whenever he speaks, you’ll notice
that he always goes back to the Constitution. I believe whatever we may say
about the military dispensation, we should realise that the era was not famous
for the observance of the rule of law. But I think that after all of these
years, Buhari has had plenty of time to reflect and all his utterances in the
many years after military rule show that he definitely subscribes fully to the
tenets of the rule of law and fundamental human rights and also understands
that democratic rule is different from military rule. Thus, I have no problems
at all working with a man like him.
Q: Some schools of thought have it that you are of less
electoral value, compared with Governor Adams Oshiomhole, Governor Rotimi
Amaechi and even Governor Raji Fashola. The argument is that the party is
making a mistake by going for somebody who has never contested or won any
election. Is the argument valid to you?
A: I think that, perhaps, there is an advantage to that,
because it means that I have to work harder. And as you can see, I am working
very hard. I think that hard work always pays off. We’re going round, speaking
with the people to know their concerns. I take nothing for granted and that is
one of the most important things I’d like to bring into the campaign. We must
do what we need to do, we must work harder than ever, we must answer questions
from the public. We are not saying to the people, ‘I am so well-known. I don’t
need to come and speak to you.’ Thus, that might well be an advantage for the
party; that I cannot take anything for granted. I need to work hard to get the
party’s policies known and recognized. I think it is important that the party
has chosen this and I am sure that it took everything into consideration before
making the choice that it made. Of course, all the gentlemen you have referred
to are thoroughly qualified individuals who would have brought something of
worth and value to the ticket; but that’s the nature of the APC, we have many
to choose from.
Q: What are the things of value you are bringing to the table?
A: I’m bringing in hard work, focus, my reputation for
detailed work and also I like to support a man who believes in probity and
accountability. I think that is important. I also would like to work with
implementation of policies. We have shown that for eight years in Lagos State.
We worked very hard on our justice sector reforms and all the other reforms of
the Tinubu-led administration. Even in the subsequent administration, we worked
hard with all of those who are there. We have been there in the public service;
we may not be famous, but we have worked very hard.
Q: Considering the fact that the Office of the Vice
President has no portfolio under the Constitution, how confident are you that
you can realise all these?
A: Buhari and I have had several discussions. I know that he
will not waste the peculiar attributes that I will bring to the table, because
he is a person who obviously values contributions from other people. I have
worked with him and I have seen him at work. I don’t think that he would waste
my contributions. I think he will happily receive contributions and give me
roles to play that will ensure that his administration benefits maximally.
What’s the point of having me on the ticket, if he is not going to use what I
will bring to the table? I don’t have any doubts at all that Buhari will find
my contributions useful enough for him to say, ‘This and that are the things
I’d like you to do.’
Q: Which roles do you think he would ask you to perform?
A: I cannot speculate on that. You will have to ask him.
Q: One of the most serious issues the country is facing is
insecurity. How do you think this should be tackled?
A: I think the first problem is recognising that you cannot
deal with such a major assault on the integrity of the nation when you are
misrepresenting the facts. And one of the things that the government,
unfortunately, has done is to accuse the opposition of being responsible for
the Boko Haram (insurgency), which, of course, has created a division. Look at
everywhere else in the world where a country has come under attack. What the
government does is to ensure that there is a bipartisan or a multi-party
agreement on how to tackle the problem. You don’t politicise the issue. In this
case, the false allegations made against the APC of being responsible for Boko
Haram (attacks), including allegations made against senior members of the party
by the government, first of all, created a distraction. Rather than identify
the real causes and issues surrounding the Boko Haram (insurgency), they were
busy labelling the APC. This, for me, is one of the greatest disservices this
administration has done to this nation. The fact that, rather than focus on who
the true enemy was, they waited until Buhari was almost killed by the same Boko
Haram before, they started to rethink that allegation, is unfortunate. Whenever
they find it convenient, they just throw the allegation around.
I think that the first thing, when you want to deal with a
danger of such enormity to a nation, is that you must be truthful, sincere and
forthright. You must identify who the true enemy is. The second is that you
have to motivate and equip the military and the Commander-in-Chief must lead
from the front. You cannot lead from behind. The people must see that just as
you are saying to them that they must be prepared to fight Boko Haram, you are
also prepared. It is apparent that our military is very disciplined. I have
said this many times, the Nigerian Army is one of the best in the world;
definitely one of the best in Africa. I served under UNOSOM 2 in Mogadishu,
Somalia; the head of the Police that took care of the entire operation, Col.
Pat Akem, was a Nigerian. He is now a brigadier. All of the troops from other
nations were under his care as the head of the military police in that
operation. The Representative of the United Nations Secretary-General in that
mission always insisted that Nigerians should be the one to guard him when he
would go out of the UN compound. Nigerian troops have distinguished themselves
in peacekeeping all over the world. It is unfortunate to hear terrible stories
that Boko Haram insurgents chased soldiers away and they are not well-equipped
or motivated. It is sad. If you want to win against an insurgency, then you
must arm the military well. That is what is required. Look at the Chibok girls
and all that has happened. Isn’t it right for the Commander-in-Chief to visit
the place? For me, I think that these are some of the issues that boost morale,
motivate the troops and the nation. Unfortunately, that is not the case.
The third issue is that we must also identify the fact that
there seems to be a large pool from where these Boko Haram members are
continuously being recruited. What is the reason for that? Many of our young
people don’t have a stake in this society. They are jobless; there are no
opportunities. And then somebody comes to them and says, ‘if you join us,
whatever you steal or loot, including women, is yours.’ That is a problem. I
think what we ought to bear in mind is that we must address some of the root
causes, especially the pool from which these people are constantly recruiting
from. We must address the problems of poverty and disillusionment among young
people, especially in those regions where Boko Haram has largely been operating
from. I believe that our government would be able to address those issues
seriously and comprehensibly. If we say, so far, trillions have been spent on
defence, and troops are complaining about bullets and rounds of ammunition,
then there is something gravely wrong.
Q: Some personalities from the Niger Delta region have
threatened that if Jonathan does not win, there will be unrest. What is your
take on this?
A: I don’t think there will be any unrest. I think our
brothers in the Niger Delta are very reasonable people. I think what everyone
will be looking for is a free and fair election. If elections are credible, no
one will take up arms or resort to self-help. If we have a free and fair
election, I don’t think that anyone will put their lives on the line to defend
the government or any such thing. What is most important is a free and fair
election. That is what the Independent National Electoral Commission and the
government of today should aim for.
Q: Do you see INEC accomplishing it?
A: The distribution of the Permanent Voter Cards has not
shown INEC in a very good light. I would really urge INEC to rise up to its
responsibilities. These coming elections are very important for the future of
our nation. And I think it is important for INEC to live up to its
responsibilities; understand the importance of the elections and understand why
the elections should not be tainted in anyway by any kind of suggestion that
they were not properly conducted. I think INEC really has a duty to this nation
— to ensure that things are done properly this time.
Q: Buhari chose another pastor, Tunde Bakare, as his running
mate in his last bid for the presidency in 2011. Does he have a disposition to
clerics?
A: You will have to ask Buhari why he likes pastors. But I
think it’s a good thing and a good sign. I think it shows that he is well and
able to work with anyone — clerics and people of other faiths.
It is believed that Buhari’s quest to sanitize the political system is an
overambitious one due to the level of corruption which political leaders in
Nigeria have grown accustomed to. What’s your take?
I think our nation is at a point where corruption is almost the norm,
especially in the public service. You and I know that that is probably the
rule; the exception is any kind of transparency or forthright behaviour. But it
is important to draw the line somewhere, because this nation cannot continue
with this level of corruption. It is just impossible. I don’t think that people
are born well. As a matter of fact, my belief is that most people will do the
wrong thing if there is no consequence for their action. And the reason why we
are here today is that there is no consequence for the actions that people take
— for corruption, stealing, or anything of the sort. That is the reason why I
think that what is required, first of all, is an administration where people
believe that the number one man will not tolerate corruption. If the number one
man is perceived as a man that will not tolerate corruption, then you have
moved light years from where we are today. I think that Buhari is somebody who
is respected for his strong views on corruption. What we need to introduce
today is consequence for corruption. If we don’t do that, frankly I am fearful
that we may not have much left of a country.
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